Healthcare Bill, What are your views on it? Options

[GameMaster360]

There is a lot on the healthcare bill right now. There is a public option in the bill. This would lead to poor health care and a government run healthcare system. The government wants to tax small businesses that do not provide healthcare converge to their employees, I heard him say that he would tax them. What are you views on this? Do you think President Obama is right or is wrong?

[Felix the Cat]

There is a lot on the healthcare bill right now. There is a public option in the bill. This would lead to poor health care and a government run healthcare system. The government wants to tax small businesses that do not provide healthcare converge to their employees, I heard him say that he would tax them. What are you views on this? Do you think President Obama is right or is wrong?

I don't see how I can have a "healthcare bill" since I don't pay any. Well it's all done via taxes. Well that applies to where I live. However I for one would like to get rid of the current people in charge and have a better system. If you ever need a hospital it takes over 4 hours to wait! And that is if it's not a life or death thing. And even if it was I am sure that it would be at least 1 hour!

As for what happens in the US I think that YES they should tax them!

[c-n-b]

Oh...you have unleashed a demon and dont realize it. I for one am against it. Not because i dont think we need change, but because i dont trust our government to run 1/6th of our entire economy. Thats ridiculous. I charge you to name just one successful govt. entitlement program that hasnt gone over budget or that isnt completely usless. Its a step in the direction of communism by this socialist and borderline commie president. Not to mention the democrats sat in a back room and came up with this nonsense in about a week after the conceptual language was scored by the CBO. 1/6th of the economy overhauled by 6 people in a week....GTFO. Anyone of those far left idiots that vote for that thing will lose their seat in 2010 guaranteed.

And as for the under trillion dollar scoring i ask you to see if the numbers add up:

Senate bill: $829B 1200(approx) pages NO govt run option House Bill: $856B 1900(approx) pages WITH govt run option

So 700 more pages a whole gov program and only $27B difference? SO if $27B is what the govt option would obviously cost....wtf is with the huge numbers? OR could it be that the CBO's math is wrong? Kind of how Medicare was originally projected at 1/16th of what it actually cost. So. according to history that would mean the house bill would ACTUALLY cost us 13 trillion 396 billion.....OH but dont worry because Obama promises it is Deficit neutral. GTFO. The BEST part is according to the bills 25 million people will still be uninsured......so tell me why are we even bringing this nonsense to a vote?

Lets slow down, start with TORT reform, and inter-state purchasing, and health savings accounts, before we have to give california to china to pay off our debt.

As for the business tax....they arent taxing them just to tax them. its a penalty tax if their private insurance they offer doesnt "measure up" or if they dont provide insuance or enroll in the govt plan. Whats funny is its only 8% of their payroll. Most company's insurance cost 15% of their payroll. Now think..in a recession...are you going to provide insurance at 15% or just pay off uncle sam and offer nothing at 8%. Its meant to force them into the cheaper govt option. Its like saying you have a choice between two doors but the same crap is behind each one.

Theres more but im tired of typing and trying to keep my son from changing the TV channel at the same time. So i digress, however ill post more i promise.

[Kyuubi]

Oh...you have unleashed a demon and dont realize it. I for one am against it. Not because i dont think we need change, but because i dont trust our government to run 1/6th of our entire economy

That tends to be my biggest problem with it by far. The health care system here sucks but mix washing it into our political figures is not my idea of fun. :\

[mario__0]

Shush you Canadian Cat
I do think we need some type of health care reform, but nothing the government is offering right now.
(side note, notice how they've changed the phrase from a government option to a 'public option'?)
The government is a large, numb, slow beast. The government's overhead is huge and that cost is either passed onto the consumer or chucked into the national deficit. The government is often unfeeling(as are most insurance companies) and their fixes that would inevitably come to fix loopholes in the Healthcare bill would either be too little or too much. The size of the government also makes it incredibly slow, based on other forms of government assistance, up to a few months to process a request.
Fining small businesses that don't offer healthcare would ruin many(I am a part of a small business and we would fall over and die if we had to offer insurance plans) of those businesses. Many people would go ahead and choose the government option because it would be cheaper, which could threaten some of the insurance companies with collapse because their business is being taken away.
I cannot see the Healthcare bill in its current form costing less than a trillion dollars, or not adding to the deficit, I think that it would probably kill this country by increasing the deficit so much.
I agree with crash, we should fix the obvious holes first to see if it holds, rather than replacing the whole system.

[Felix the Cat]

Shush you Canadian Cat

You do realize that your current leaders came to Canada for advice on Health Care, I think it was way back in February

[c-n-b]

You do realize that your current leaders came to Canada for advice on Health Care, I think it was way back in February

Well thats because hes socialist....and i do believe thats what the canadian healthcare system is...single payer no? And for him to seek advice from Canada..( which has a failed system itself ) just proves he isnt fit to be our leader. Who trys to rebuild a system with a template of a twice failed system? Idiotic if you ask me. If he would quit trying to quietly gain more govt control over people he would see the obvious few things that need to be fixed with our current system...that could actually have a chance at being deficit neutral. Stupid sneaky commie obama...all of you who voted for him should slap yourselves....repeatedly...until you die. for us that didnt....make sure you vote in 2010 to hindicapp him by wnning back the majority in congress. I know im going to be..and dragging people i know to the polls.

[mario__0]

Dang it, I forgot to put in my main point, I am getting forgetful these days >.>
Government Healthcare:
If you had healthcare with the government, you would have a premium like other insurance companies, and like other insurance companies if you participate in risky behaviors then your premiums will go up. The government could use this to punish people who smoke, eat too much red meat, drink, not eat enough vegetables, etc. I don't want that to happen >.>

[Ayako]

My biggest beef with the plan is that people are being forced into it. If you don't want to do it, you shouldn't have to participate or pay a hefty fine. It's your own damn fault when you get sick/hurt and can't pay the premiums.

Unfortunately, our society has turned into one where people think they are entitled to anything they desire. However, that is a whole 'nother topic.

[Kyuubi]

My biggest beef with the plan is that people are being forced into it. If you don't want to do it, you shouldn't have to participate or pay a hefty fine. It's your own damn fault when you get sick/hurt and can't pay the premiums.

Unfortunately, our society has turned into one where people think they are entitled to anything they desire. However, that is a whole 'nother topic.

I've gotten hammered on my reasoning on other forums but my opposition boils down to the fact that we elect a new man into office every four to eight years but once you grant the government power to regulate something it generally doesn't go away. Healthcare obviously needs significant reform but having the government directly regulate it gives the capacity for it to interfere way too much with people personal decisions The cigarette tax to fund childrens' healthcare or the soda tax for example. The sitting president can have all the most benevolent intentions but then again what happens if you get Cheney for example in the oval office next term? If for example you trusted Obama with the decisions he makes, would you feel the same if Cheney or someone else came into power?

I don't think alot of people think about that implication. Actually I asked as similar question on another forum in a discussion about excluding fox news from the press pools. It seems to me like it's a pretty relevant question.

[c-n-b]

The fact is his intentions are not beneveloent. 90% of his administration are marxists....a few even self proclaimed communists. What better tool to have to redistribute wealth than healthcare? and now they are trying to take away the federal reserves powers and put it into a new govt beauracracy? seriously....this adminstration and this radically progressive congress led by Nancy pelosi who wouldnt know the truth if it shot her in the face...is dangerous. Plus with raising taxes to near 50%...we are on the verge of taxation without representation. And we all know how that worked out the first go around. They know they are doomed in 2010 elections...so now they want to ram everything down our throats they can before they are ousted. Makes me sick to see this country head toward communism after i did two tours in iraq for it.

[Kyuubi]

I still love asking the question though since I know full well that even the slightest prospect of having Cheney in the white house (again) is like a malignancy to the left in this country. Examples like Venezuela (though an extreme case) perfectly illustrate my point, whether it specifically compares to the Obama administration or not. The fact is once you grant government the power to regulate it's nearly impossible to vote out. The 12 trillion dollar deficit and the medicare woes alone render me pessimistic of any government sponsored plan. Both social security and medicare ended up being multitude pricier than they were expected to be at the time of implementation, and the taxation proposals by Pellossi & company to tax income earners based on a set tier or income level isn't indexed to inflation; ergo as wages increase to meet the increase in inflation over time, more people will be considered "rich" over time.